how many conservatives truly believe their tactics pose no risk whatsoever to the economy, particularly given what happened the last time they took the debt ceiling hostage? >> look, what heritage put out today is drivel. a transparent attempt -- >> drivel, this is the considered view of an important organization. >> yeah, whose president is jim demint. i don't take it all that seriously. >> okay. >> what they're saying is, well, the government could pay the interest on its bonds, but you could then cut everything else, social security, medicare, education. what they're ignoring is the fact that you would shake the confidence of markets all over the world with unpredictable consequences. this could be of the order of lehman brothers in 2008. john boehner actually knows this. he said the other day that a default would be a financial disaster, and he's taking his folks to their retreat, their weekend retreat somewhere in right wing fantasy land and he has a power point -- >> i believe it's in virginia so please be respectful of that state. >> i love that state. i think there's going to be